Medal Tally


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August 20, 2004

Comments

PF Doom

No way he should give up the gold for two reasons -

#1 - he didn't cheat in any way, and no one cheated on his behalf. What happened was an accident. The head of the Olympic organization was on tv last night, and made the comparison to a soccer match. If the referee makes a bad call, and it leads to a penatly that changes the game, they can't go back the next day and replay the game. Mistakes are made, and you just have to play on. It isn't like Hamm was given the medal anyway - he still had to perform almost flawlessly on two events to win. The other gymnast could have performed better on either aparatus and still won the gold.

#2. The analyst pointed out that although they started the difficulty at .1 lower than it was suppossed to be, they also didn't deduct .2 for having too many hold positions in the Korean gymnasts routine. If you want to reverse one mistake, you'd have to correct the other too - so his score would have gone down. Plus, I'm sure many score would be different if you could scrutinize the video over and over - but that isn't how the sport is set up

NW

Hmm....I thought the Olympics would erase my mind about the US-led war in Iraq. I watch gymnastics just to see the performance. The gold medal isn't worth anything without sportsmanship. Judges make mistake. But, Ken pointed out a letter in which Paul Hamm did tell the press that he will give up medal if FIG tells him.

I pray for the families who witness the beheading of the American and Korean men by Iraqis insurgents the beginning of this year. The men are real victims, not Paul Hamm.

Mina

If Paul Hamm know Olympic sprit, He should return the medal to the Korean guy. That is real champion and real impressive act. Paul don't have any faults. But he just pick up the wallet on the street, then have to return.
That is moral..

rh

It is hard to believe tha anyone could argue that Hamm should keep the medal. Everyone acknowledges that there was a mistake in the scoring and that the Korean had the most points. Hamm is really a sad figure. His argument that it is like a blown football call is ridiculous. It's more like putting up the wrong score on the scoreboard and the losing team taking home the SuperBowl trophy. His argument that the Korean's routine should be reviewed and have points deducted for penalties he alleges occured is laughable. This is like a blown call. It occured during the action and was not a simple miscalculation of points. Paul Hamm is a selfish and pathetic individual. He is like a child who refuses to do the obvious right thing and is unless a parent makes him. The guy i the antithesis of a winner (you know what that is )

Martin

Paul Hamm is an arrogant athlete and a prick. He is not a winner of gold. He says he is the greatest Olympian champion? What? Is he schizophrenic? He didn't really win! And the whole world knows that, it is him who doesn't actually believe that. This is as simple as black and white. Or what, its ok for the judges to make a mistake but its too late for them to change back the medals because the Korean only realized they’ve been cheated the next day? Hierocracy never fails to amaze me!

jack

Keep the gold, Paul. Tell the FIG to clean up their own mess and do something about unfair and incompetent judges. If you did anything to affect the outcome of their vote, it may be a different story. But, you did your best and deserve the medal you received. Stand tall, Paul, you were great!

Claudio

This is for Jack: The FIG cleaned up the mess, suspended the judges and asked Paul to return the medal. Now is up to him not be a thief and return what doesn't belong to him. It is true that he did his best, but so did the Korean guy and his was a little better than Paul's. There is no other way about it: in my book, when you keep something that is not yours it is theft.

BTW: he was pretty pathetic last night on TV: when Bob Costa asked him about his statement that he would return the medal if the FIG asked for it he replied that what he meant is that "if I (Paul) thought was the right thing to do". Pathetic person.

Womack

He's screwed either way. If he doesn't give the medal back, he'll be known as an a*hole. If he does give it back, he loses the medal. So, is it better to be an a*hole with an Olympic medal or is it better to be the guy who decided to give in and give back his medal? Decisions!

P.S. I like how everyone calls Yang Tae-young the Korean guy, next we'll be calling Svetlana Khorkina the Russian chick.

Womack

He's screwed either way. If he doesn't give the medal back, he'll be known as an a*hole. If he does give it back, he loses the medal. So, is it better to be an a*hole with an Olympic medal or is it better to be the guy who decided to give in and give back his medal? Decisions!

P.S. I like how everyone calls Yang Tae-young the Korean guy, next we'll be calling Svetlana Khorkina the Russian chick.

klara

Paul Hamm, why did you have to stumble out of the bounds and land on your ass on the vault in the individual all-around finals? That was not a very graceful performance...nor was your response to David Letterman's question about a duplicate gold for Yang in the Late Night Show -"I believe I am the true olympic champion?
" and he just had to say that he could not support the idea of duplicate gold for Yang.
I was feeling sorry for Pual Hamm when the media was pressuring him to give up his gold medal, because, after all, it is not Hamm's fault that Yang was robbed of his deserved gold. It is really cruel to award Hamm the gold and then take it away, when the fault lies with the imcompetent judges. But then, Hamm had to open his big mouth and had to show the world that his ego is growing exponentially (to make matters worse, he has the voice of a chipmunk on Helium, the poor kid). He's starting to look a little greedy. In his mind winning an Olympic Gold medal is much more important than being an ethical human being. I suppose that is the American ideal -winning is everything; ethics is secondary. And all those sad souls that argue that Yang should have had .2 deducted from his parallel bars routine and hence it wouldn't have mattered? What about reviewing Pual Hamm's routines? Are you sure judges were fair in marking his routines? Are you sure that Hamm should have received a score of 9.1+ on his laughable vault? By the way, I wonder why the American atheletes were booed as they were entering the Olympic stadium, while the Iraqi atheletes received a standing ovation on the night of the opening ceremony. I had to laugh...I love America...

Natalie

Ok, everyone who is bashing Paul, it appears to be YOUR personal opinion, NOT FACT, that Paul is NOT the winner. You are NOT the judges, so why do you even care to say the two bits of negative information you can to totally trash a person you don't personally know? Get a life...to come on here and spew a whole slew of nasty comments. You all can say what you want, but the TRUE FACTS are that the JUDGES made a mistake of setting the Korean on a 9.9, instead of 10.0, HOWEVER, they also did not deduct the tenths point for the Korean guy's mistake of holding onto the bars more than THREE times. Now, say what you want, but it is ridiculous to continue to debate what the judges should've, should not of done, when the competition is clearly over! It's like taking back a ball thrown into the hoop near the end of a basketball game which won the championship. Paul gets the medal, the end. Geez, I wouldn't blame him from being a little possessive, I would to, knowing he probably has personally READ the negative comments he has gotten since winning that medal. Sad, so sad that people have to blame the gymnast for the mistakes the judges made.

And as a comparison, if the guy who won the medal had been anyone but American, would people think twice about him not getting it? Did anyone care that the Japanese guy in swimming won and shouted with glee? And that he might have previously done an illegal dolphin kick? Funny how that situation outrages no one while, this one...which the gymnasts had no control over, did.

Natalie

Correction, Yang Tae-Young is the person who won bronze in gymnastics. And Kosuke Kitajima who won gold in swimming.

Claudio

To Natalie: You (and a lot of other people) used the analogie of a wrong call in basketball or football. This really doesn't apply. The reason that a wrong call in a game can not be reversed is because of soemthing called "conitnuity of play". That means that the continuation of the game is a result of that call, if the call is reversed the game would have to be restarted from that moment on, which is clearly cumbersome to say the leat. That's why in football only certain calls are allowed to be revised, only the calls that end on a stopped ball and don't affect the continuity. Anyway, this is also what happened to Brazilian guy on the Marathon, he was ahead by a considerable a considerable margin but was attacked by that crazy f*ck. Well, there is a good chance that he would have won, but also that who would have not. Giving him any kind of "compensation" like an extra gold medal as the brazilians are asking would be totally unfair to the other runners that would have probably, or probably not, overtake him anyway.

The Hamm case is different, the correct analogie here is someone writing the wrong score on the game sheet after the game is over. It didn't alter at all the continuity of play. So by all means it should be reversed.

Regarding the extra deductions that were supposedly not taken away from Yang Tae-Young, there is a lot of speculation here. The NBC commentator SPECULATED that "there is no way that they gave him the deductions". The fact is that he doesn't know that, he simply speculated. The judges sheets were not made public. And eve if they were, we would have then in total fairness have to review all the tapes of all the athletes to make sure that deuctions were not missed anywhere else.

Paul Hamm is going to end up keeping his medal on a technicality and because of a big screw-up by the FIG. But he should do the decent thing and return it. (It reminds me of something that happened in Florids sometime ago...)

On character note: he has been kind of a jerk on TV, not a single time he has acknowledge that Mr. Tae-Young was the "unofficial" winner or that he deserved the medal. And he does have the voice of a chipmunk on Helium.

One more thing: there is a big precedent that people are not talking about: if I am not mistaken, Sidney 2000, russian woman diver, gets a gold medal. She was told that there was a mistaken on the difficulty rating of somebody else's dive, that she would not have won the medal. She promptly return the medal w/o any fuss and any Russian OC making a big deal about it. Now there is a great athlete, if I only could remember her name...

Dan

Claudio, well said. Finally someone with a well-thought out, reasonable explanation of all this. I personally have nothing against Paul Hamm; how could I? I don't know him in the slightest. What I DO know are the facts stated ever so succinctly in Claudio's statement above are correct. I understand that people on the Hamm bandwagon find these truths hard to accept (though not to understand, as they are clear truths). Of course it is a hard thing to admit that he won unfairly, due to a judging error, but in the interest of fairplay and good sportsmanship, and all the "non-technical" stuff that the Olympics are supposed to be about...well, it is clear what should have happened (but clearly now will not). It should be noted that most people arguing on behalf of Mr. Hamm are fans of his, and so fans of his should stick up for him. And there are detractors of his who are just out for blood now, and never liked him to begin with. But it's also important to note that not everyone on the other side of the arguement is a "Hamm-hater", for want of a better term. Some of us just think that a wrong was done, and that it would have been nice for it to be corrected. I suppose it is a moot point since some Hamm fans will never listen to logic, and some Hamm-haters will ignore the logic as well, in order to go on hating. But man, would it not have been nice to have one really good story from these lacklustre Olympics to look back on?...

reena

i heard that he should have earned it anywaiz czu the korena werent deducted fo one of their bar routinez wher u can only hold up three time but he did four or sumthign like that..so paul hamm did deserve it anywaiz cuz the koreanz should have been deducted the piont but werent..i think paul hamm is not arrogant but he seemz like a person who would give it up if he had 2 ..i mean he seems like a sweetheart on tv...i wish the best for him i mean the korena did get their gold medal in the breaststrok n that waz illegal wit the whoile dolphin kick n stuff ..they should juss call it oof n let thingz b ..luv ya hamm...Reena

fact

If Paul says that the tape has to be checked for every single mistakes what judges missed for Yang, I doubt he deserves the gold anyway because he got the unreasonable score after he crashed to the table. 9.1xx? That should be around 8.9xx or less. He doesn't even deserve a bronze if he got 8.9xx for his butt. I feel really poor about how USA got 2 golds and 1 silve by using their power in gymnastics in Athens and other places in the past olympics. But why only Americans themselves don't know about the USA's fraud???? I really want to know why they don't know it. USA americans must be a bunch of dumbs or dolls just believing what media or their politicians say. If Bush deceives their people once more saying that Japan will attack them again, I guess, they would really believe what he says.

kittycoo

Keep it paul! You deserve it! Your a hero and you know it!I'm behind you 100%. Don't listen to anything else. People can say what they want, but it will never be true. Keep your head up and chest out, you'll make it through. Your an inspiration to all of us and my personal idol. There is only one person who deserves that medal, and his name is Paul Hamm.

faSHO

By the way fact, you have awful grammar.

Interoperability needs to be improved for sure, and I conceed that we need a better attitude. But bashing doesn't help matters.

kittycoo

I think some of you need to put yourselves in pauls position. You have just made two of the best performances of possibly your career, fufilled a lifelong dream, and now someone wants to take it away from you? and don't anyone say they would give it back, because we know you wouldn't. So lay off, Paul worked his ass off and got what he deserved. Besides, all of you people are ruining the moment. :P

kittycoo

leave paul alone, it's not like he chose his voice, besides, i LIKE his voice! so go screw over someone else!

Jay

does he even deserve a medal after a hard fall?
I don't think so. paul is blinded by a gold medal.
We should feel sorry for Paul that he is trying to hold on for a something doesn't belong to him. Paul, you are holding onto a poison in.

stephanie

I agree that maybe the best thing for Paul Hamm to do is to give up the gold medal. It would show great sportsmanship and humility. After all he wouldn't have it if the scores would have been correct and it would give the gold medal to what everyone says is the rightful winner. However, if any of you have watched other performances of both Yang Tae-Young and Paul Hamm, Paul is the much more consistent of the two. His performances are almost always dead on while Young's are not. That shows that Paul is much better at what he does and probably deserves the gold even if the scores weren't correct.

Anyway, if Paul did give up the gold medal to Young, then yes he would be doing a great service, but he would also be taking the silver away from Young's countryman who thinks he rightfully won the silver. If Paul gave up the gold, he would take the silver and bump the other Korean down to bronze. That is not in the least bit fair.

josh

gosh, all you people standing up for paul, that korean guy had more points so he should get the gold. That easy, we lean it in elementry, adding!! Yeah, but they should give paul something.... awwwwwww paul should be nice and give up the gold. He'd be like the number #1 sportsmanship guy. He'd be so frickin popular. Thats the right thing to do, yeah? oh and if you think this is corny, sorry but wwhat can you say, I'm only 11.

josh

lol that las two line is so frickin dumb. i erase those two lines.

tom dulake

poo

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